Hey, everyone. Hi, everyone. They're back! Yes! Finally. So it's been what? A month or more. Okay. 

Longer than we wanted. Oh, yes. Um. We are the newborn photographer. Diaries. This is Jackie, and I'm 

Ariel. Yeah. Um, we're in Ariel studio today. Yes. We decided to start doing this in person on a regular 

basis. So build backstory, because no one knows this. But we have recorded two podcasts since the first 

podcast, and we did that at, um, each other's like where you were at your space. I was here. Yeah. And 

we had internet issues. We had technology issues. We had recording issues. I could not edit them to 

actually look good or sound good. It's kind of it's been a journey. It's been a trip. And we decided that 

instead of dealing with the technology that we'll just meet in person once a month, I think Ariel is still 

trying to convince me to move up here. Well, yeah, I know. Is it working? Um, I mean, I would love to. I 

was like, finally. I don't think it is working anymore. I have to convince my husband. Yeah, he's he's he's 

the problem. Yeah. Well, one day maybe. Maybe. It's always nice to have a studio. Yeah, for sure. But at 

least we don't live very far away from each other. So driving to each other's house or studio? Yeah. Once 

a month is not that big of a deal. Not at all. So, like, we're, what, three, almost three hours, two and a 

half, half hours away. It's not a bad drive either. Like it's not. Not a long 2.5 hours. Right. There's a 

difference, I think. Yeah. It's not like driving like across the state. No, like, got 4 or 5 hour drive or 

something like that. It's a doable drive. Like if you live in, like the rural, rural, rural part of the state. 

Like, you're not used to, like, driving distances anyway. Like, I drive 45 minutes to go to Walmart. Yeah. 

And like, the drive is a lot. Most of the highway. But then you do get off the highway and then that's just 

really pretty through like little up north towns. And so it's kind of a good break up of just right on the 

highway for 2.5 hours. Yes. Just boring. Yeah. Speaking of highway driving, my son is in driver's 

training, and he had the highway drive the other way. No, he's like, he was so nervous. He he, like, gave 

me a hug getting out of the car to go to his drive because he was so nervous. I'm like, this kid never hugs 

me. And then he comes home and he's like, that was so much fun. Yeah. Like, so the lead up was more 

anxiety ridden than the actual drive. He's like, yeah, you know, like I really loved it. He liked going 80. 

And I'm like, oh dear Lord, I hate that time. I we have three more that have to get through it. And I'm just 

like, I'm ready. Yes. I, I was so nervous. I was watching him on like 360 the whole time. And yeah, you 

know, you're going 7070, but it turns out he really loved it. So I'm like, great, that's now I have a need for 

speed, kid. Yeah, well, then maybe he'll move to Grand Rapids and then take the highway all the time. 

All the time? It sucks. Anyway, um, so we have had two topics that we've talked about that we'll never 

see the light of day just because of our technology issues. But now we're going to rerecord the topics. I 

see the light of day. That's right. But the recordings are not. No. Um, yeah. Which the two topics were 

imposter syndrome and trends and trends. Yeah. So we're going to redo the imposter syndrome once a 

day. We're gonna we're going to talk a lot about imposter syndrome. And actually, it's okay that we got to 

record it because like, I know this week for me, I've, I've got a lot of content to talk about now. Yeah. 

Because you had quite the week last week I did. Yeah. That was I had seven, seven babies last week 

which is going so just for a little bit of like a reference point. I try very hard when I'm scheduling and like 

someone reaches out with their due date to not have more than two sessions per week because like. 

You're not just shooting the session. I've got to answer the emails. I have to keep up with my editing and 

soft proofing and then the cleanup, like directly after a session. The session. Um, I have three sitters on 

rotation, and they're all so sick of me that, like, today. Yeah, my kids are with my husband. He's 

babysitting today. We're like, we need a break. They didn't say that, but they were all very busy, you 

know, convenient, busy, and I understand, I understand, and I missed my kids. That was a lot. That was a 

lot. I mean, a typical session takes between I mean, if I'm really good at babies, really good. And we're 

just doing baby, I've done it in two hours, but typically between 3 and 4 hours is my yeah, at four hours. 

I'm usually telling parents, if we don't have anything, let's just talk about it next time. Um, which I had 

one of those this week. Yes, you did, and you hadn't had one in a really long time. I haven't had to ask, 

um, a family to come back in two years. That's crazy. Um, this week. Yeah. Yeah, which is kind of 

funny, because I feel like the more and more we talk, the more I feel like we're the same person just 

living in two different locations. And one's blond, one's brunette, like, um, but because, like, the same 

thing. Yeah, I have never had to ask someone back other than the one. Like two years ago. It was about 

two years ago and she didn't want to come back. She she ended up loving what she got, even though I 

think she got absolutely nothing. Yeah, she. But yeah, I had one at that long ago where I offered it, but 

they still they said no. Yeah. And you know, like I'm not one to offer I will try. Um, and even if my 

gallery is not like, um, as complete as maybe the baby the day before. Well, I have, like, a in mind. This 

is what I have to get to be okay with it and not offer it. So there maybe were some suggestions that I 

could have been like, you can come back because they weren't as full as other galleries, but. Right. If I 

have only gotten one set up with your baby in three hours, that's usually my like, that's that's just. We're 

coming back. That's so stressful. I would be like, I, I would be like, just leave and come back. I'm like, 

I'm not trying anymore. And this, this like, family was being just was having an off day. He had tummy 

issues and we mom dad we all tried everything and he just needed another. He needed to come back 

another time. Yeah. So how soon are you having him come back? Um, in a week. A week? Giving him 

his. He was about a week old. It was a little over a week old. So giving his time like a week to kind of get 

regulated. Regulated to. Yeah, to just adjust. I think that's sometimes what it takes. And so those baby 

ages, they're so hit and miss I don't ever know. Like I used to say ten days was perfect. And then and see 

I used to say like 19 to 20 days was perfect. Yeah. And then I had like a string of really rough ones that 

were about that age. And now I'm having great ones at like the 14 day range. And then I had like one that 

was that was just insane. And I'm like, well, maybe it's just not a thing. And it's just it is what it is. That's 

another podcast topic that is totally I mean, I just had an eight week old and he was a preemie. So like 

adjusted age. He was not even supposed to be born yet. But, uh, he he was amazing. He blew. So he was 

more than eight weeks early. Yeah. Wow. Well, he was eight weeks early, so he was due Sunday, and I 

took him. I think his session was Thursday. Wow. So, yeah. He was. Wow. Yeah. So he was just. Just 

born. Dude. Likewise. That's crazy. That's okay. Wow. Um. He did amazing. But I've had, you know, 

five day olds, which I don't usually don't recommend. Don't do five days. No, but that was, uh, that was a 

case of, um. Not complete honesty with the date they were born. Oh my God. Um. And you had parents 

lie like that? Just a couple. That was one. And it was a couple days off. And honestly, I think it's because 

you hear so much that, like, there's so many photographers that won't go past 14 days because they don't 

curl up. So I think sometimes when parents read that, they get anxiety that they're not going to be curled 

and sleepy and that they'll be turned away. Yeah. Or like, the sooner you get them in the curl, you're 

sleepy. They're going to be. But that's not the case. Always like. Right. Like I have a really chubby seven 

week old, like, picture out there. And she did. I mean, it took a lot to get her to go to sleep, but once she 

did, she did the cutest bone up ever. Yeah. And I've done like three. I did a three week old. That was 21 

days. Yeah. And he did every single table post. Curled up, smushed. He was amazing. Um, so yeah, I 

have had that before. I've never had someone the opposite, which I mean, knock on wood. Right. Would 

that that their baby was like younger and they came in early or later. Older. I honestly think I had one. 

Did you? She will not admit it, though. Um. And it was funny. They were, like, smiling and going. Yeah, 

she was. I'm not kidding. This baby was supposed to have been almost three weeks, like 2 to 3 weeks. 

But what's kind of funny is that it's a little backstory. She was my birth client. Like I do birth 

photography as well, and she was my birth client. And then suddenly she just said that she didn't want me 

there anymore. She didn't want birth photography, she didn't want anyone there. And the midwife told me 

that it's probably because she had family wanting to be there, and she was just telling blanket everyone 

no. Yeah. And I'm like, yeah, I totally get that. That's fine. I'll fully, you know, respect those boundaries 

and stuff like that. But I honestly think she just had such a fast delivery and I missed it and she didn't 

want me to know. And because she never messaged me or anything like that, and then she just cancelled 

the birth photography stuff. So she transferred all funds to a newborn session. But when I wrapped that 

baby up, that baby was eye contact and smiling and cooing at me. And I'm like, this kid is not three 

weeks old. Yeah. I'm like, there's no way. This kid was almost cooing. That's the indicator. Because like, 

I've had babies not necessarily smiling on demand, but like stare at me and they follow me and I'm like, 

oh shit. Yeah. But like when you're cooing and smiling and like, response to seeing, it's like she followed 

me and she smiled at my expression. I'm like, this is not a three week old baby. And she was huge. Like 

just huge. Yeah. That was and I'm like, you must have had her. Early. And then so. I don't know. 

Something just fell off. But like, calendar wise, I mean, it made sense. Like it should have been fine. But 

maybe this baby was just advanced. I don't know the feeling thing. Maybe she just. Maybe she just came 

out like a toddler already. I don't know, I mean, I've had babies come to me the size of a toddler right? At 

all. I mean, she just because she even the mom, she's like, I've been told I've been I practically skipped 

the newborn stage and I'm like, kind of half. Yeah, it's very fast. It's very fast. And anyway, we digress. 

Yeah, I love that we get a chat for like a kind of sideways. And because like we talked about a little bit 

about the hard sessions, I mean besides age and, and I so I had seven babies last week and most were 

very good. I did have a couple that were, uh, difficult and I do I did leave those sessions questioning, 

like, am I actually good at this? Because, you know, some days you have like clients. So come in there 

like you're like a baby whisperer. And I'm like, that is a huge compliment, right? Um, and then you have 

sessions that don't go the way that you had. Planned, expected. And then you walk away like, oh, am I 

really good at this? Yeah. Plus I'm having some major, major color issues that like my clients probably 

hopefully, you know, they'll never know know. But for me, I have to edit a different way, which is like 

throwing like a wrench in everything. So yeah, just like which makes you doubt when you go through an 

editing crisis. I think that just multiplies the imposter syndrome and a recession went bad. Then you have 

like editing, editing issues and then you're like, this is just not my day. This is like a perfect storm. Yeah, 

yeah, for sure. I have a session coming up tomorrow. Actually, it's an outdoor family session, and I 

haven't done an outdoor session since last summer. Yeah, and she says that, but I've seen her outdoor 

session work and I'm like, yeah, I but I like this is a repeat client. And she expects top notch stuff. And 

like, I feel like I'm afraid I'm not going to be able to deliver. Yeah. So my imposter syndrome is really 

hitting me. I'm very nervous about tomorrow's session, for sure. Well, you're gonna kill it, I know it. 

Thankfully, the kids are older, but like, thankfully the kids are older. And I'm like, not panicking about, 

like, trying to get a toddler to cooperate or anything like that. But I am very nervous just because I'm the 

biggest people pleaser I ever and I don't want to disappoint her. I don't know how you feel, but I. I feel 

like I am a studio photographer. You throw me on the outdoors and it's just like, oh, there's a lot more 

that I have that I can control. I can use the studio you can control so much. Have you ever thought about 

just not doing outdoor sessions? Oh, yeah. Like just saying nope. And that's not a surface I offer. So I one 

day hope to be putting this out in the world. I one day hope to be the go to newborn photographer and 

taking on every once in a while milestone sessions. Um, yeah, because I like seeing the babies come 

back. I do, yeah, but if I could choose. Okay, if I could choose two sessions to ever like just to have my 

calendar filled and would not take anything else, it would be newborn and personality portraits. Oh yeah, 

that would be it. It's like no maternity, no milestone, no, no, no case, man. No. So there's things that I like 

about all of them, like maternity. I like meeting my clients before because then I feel like when they 

come in for newborn, they're more relaxed, which makes baby more relaxed because they've met me 

before. Right. We've connected. Um, hopefully. Uh. And then I like seeing my my babies come back so 

that, like. Oh my gosh, you've grown. I can still see that newborn. But you're such a human. Yeah, and I 

do like seeing the families. So I do have some families. Like right now I'm at the point where I only 

schedule family outdoor family sessions for returning clients, so I should just do that. So if you're not, if 

you haven't booked a newborn session with me, um, at one point I was extending it to personality portrait 

session, but now I don't because those are one of my lowest packages that I offer. So now it's like, if 

you've booked a newborn session with me, then you're basically on my roster for family. For family? 

Yeah, because I just don't have time anymore, which is great, but I, I want to leave that space in my 

calendar for newborn bookings. Yeah. So that's my goal here too, is to be the newborn photographer. 

And I feel like I've actually kind of accomplished that up here. I think so because I'm one of the only 

ones actually within a two hour radius that does do pose newborn. Yeah. And so it's amazing. Well, I see 

and I don't think that but thank you. I just moved a client that's from Chicago area visiting here. Another 

visiting? Yeah, but, I mean, they're from the big city, and they want you to photograph there, which is 

really cool. So, um, I yeah, I definitely I. So two year old horn. I don't like doing that. I'm not good 

either. Um, but what was I saying? Anyway, yeah, I want to be the go to newborn photographer. Just like 

how you said. Um, but then I was talking with a fellow friend and photographer in our area. Um, she 

primarily does weddings and families, and she is, like, the mini session queen. Like, she just does all of 

them, like 60 plus families every single time that she does. Is it? It's crazy. Like, I could never. Many 

sessions are not my thing. Um, but she does them and we were talking and she's like, why don't you just 

do families too? Like that way they'll they're there for you, like all the time. Like maternity, newborn 

families. Like they'll just follow with you. Yeah. And like that makes sense. But I want to be comfortable 

in like the one thing. It's harder to be comfortable in more than one thing. I think like, well, that's just for 

me. Especially when we're talking about going into like, we kind of touched on our last one, that luxury. 

The luxury. Yeah. You really? Yes. Your marketing has to be top game because like, there are people in 

the luxury market that I think quality wise maybe aren't there, but they are still getting clients because of 

their marketing. Yeah. But you want to be seen as like you have the niche. Yeah. Like you have to have a 

specialty. Yeah. It's the analogy that I've learned in like a mentoring type of situation was like, um, if you 

have a baby, do you take them or what? A broken bone or whatever. Do you go to your, like, general 

physician or do you go to a specialist? Yeah. And I really like that concept because I want to be known as 

the newborn specialist, the, the pediatrician in that analogy. Right. Yeah. You know, versus like taking 

my baby to a general practitioner. Yeah. Like, and and I have a medical field background. So like that 

clicked with me and I'm like that makes sense. So but if I so if I'm doing families and maternity and all 

these other things, then I'm not. Maybe those just can be add ons viruses. I mean, you're not going to go 

get a steak at McDonald's, right? I mean. I mean, that's that's true. I like that one too. They're not a 

steakhouse. Yeah. If you want a good steak and, you know, quality, you're not going to go to McDonald's 

for, right? I mean, that might be touching a little different part, but true. But then not doing these sessions 

that often. Like I think that plays into the imposter syndrome for sure. Yeah. The doubting your skills and 

your ability because you're not used to doing those types of sessions. So. So what do you think? Um, let's 

go to imposter syndrome. And I think you just kind of. It was a good segue into that. Yeah. When do you 

start feeling? Do you feel that? All the time, I guess, like the imposter syndrome? Or is it something that, 

like, comes and goes? I think I feel at like 75% of the time. Okay. What about you? Um, I feel like it's 

ebbs and flows. Yeah. And I feel like sometimes it's session by session. Sometimes it's week by week, 

month by month. Can I ask a personal question? Yeah. Like, do you feel it with your cycle? Like your 

hormonal cycle? No, I don't think so. I do, I think I do. I think that's because I start getting it for different 

reasons. So that's the next question I have for you. When do you start feeling like, what do you think 

triggers the imposter syndrome? Well, I have a history of depression and anxiety, and we touched on that 

a little bit before, I think. Or maybe that was one of the recordings we know will not work. But um, so I, 

I, I struggle a lot with that. And I've had postpartum depression and I also, um, major depression kind of 

runs in my family. And so I kind of get a touch of that and I'll feel like this ebb and flow. And so if I get 

crazy busy, um, and then my, like, home life suffers and then I start to shut down and I kind of like, I 

can't do anything. Right. And then, um, but I think the busier that I am, the less imposter syndrome I feel 

the, the less busy that I am, the more imposter syndrome I feel, because I feel like, oh, it's been a couple 

weeks now. I'm not going to know what it to do. I don't know what I'm doing. I'm like that whole, like, 

nobody likes me. I know that sometimes I take things so personally if you're not getting a booking or 

something like that, so like those kinds of things trigger it. Um, so like if I'm super busy, I'm good, but if 

I'm not busy, I'm feeling it. But if I'm at the same thing as a double edged sword, if I'm super busy, then I 

get overwhelmed and then I get depressed, and then I'd be like. I need. I need to stop what I'm doing. I 

need to quit everything. And it's like a full skill. Stop. It's. Yeah, I totally get what you're saying. It's not 

like, okay, we're going to slowly slow down. It's like, I need to stop everything. I almost quit, like 

everything. I almost quit every single job that I do because I also still hold the job at the hospital. And I'm 

like, I'm going to quit everything. I'm done. I'm gonna sit on the couch and I'm not doing anything. But I 

think that's just like, I need, I need to find that balance for me because that's who I am. Yeah. And it's not 

something that I can fix because, like, I've tried, I've gone. I've gone and asked for help. And turns out 

I'm allergic to the medication that would help. I'm allergic to anti-depressants. Difficult job. So I can't do 

that. But, um, unfortunately for me, that that is a barrier, I think. What about you? I mine is a little 

different. I definitely feel it when I think that I've failed a client. Um, and I don't know of any. I'm sure I 

have, but I don't know of any clients that I failed. But, um, like, if I have a session where. I couldn't get 

my light right or like as much as it is muscle memory. Every baby is different. Every baby. As much as I 

know exactly how to lay them in certain poses or whatever. Like there's still different shapes. There's still 

different things. Yeah. And some days I can't get my light right. I just had a session like that. Right. And 

I'm still trying to figure out if there was my equipment, if it was just something I was doing. Other skin. 

But like, I know in the end it's going to be all right. Like, rationally, I know in the end it's going to be all 

right. But the irrational side of me is I just failed my clients, and then I feel like I don't think I'm worth 

that person seeking me out. And then it kind of spirals a little bit because then I stop being so outgoing as 

far as, like, right, marketing and connecting and, um, so you feel like those kinds of things spiral down. 

Yeah. And then like, the next day or the next week, I'll have a session. I mean, this just happened. That is 

like amazing and everything is right. And I don't feel like I changed anything, like, technically or 

anything. I did my thing, but it just turned out amazing. And then I feel like, oh, no, I'm good. I'm good. I 

mean. So yours is more like based on success of of your session versus anything else? Yeah. And I think 

a lot of that has to come from like. Like, uh, you know, getting better and getting noticed, I guess, for 

your work. And then, you know, you hear that you're notice, like, oh, your work is good, your work is 

good. And then you have like, one, you're like, this is not good. Like, yeah. And then it kind of feels like 

you're a phony, right? Like, yeah. And I think validation. Yeah, yeah. That helps. Um, like, I posted, uh, 

some pictures just the other day, and I got no likes on it at all. I think maybe it was yesterday, but then 

I'm like. But then I think it just didn't get approved. Oh, and then it popped up and I'm like, oh, it's still no 

one's likes it. I'm like, okay, I really do suck. Well, I don't think, you know, I'm gonna have to go through 

and find it. And they don't like it. I'm like it and like it again. So sometimes I like my own post just to 

push it back up there. I, you know, that's it. Yeah. Then you don't like it because you don't want to be 

caught doing the one that it's like I've accidentally liked my own stuff. And I was like, oh, well, I would 

like that now. But that's yeah, mine, I think is very much based on performance. Yeah. Maybe it's the 

oldest child in me that, like, wants to be perfect at everything. And then it's, it's really hard when you're 

not perfect. Yeah. And people pleaser. And in this industry you're never perfect like. Yeah. And well it's 

art too. So like artists. So when is it subjective. Yeah. So everyone's got different tastes. Different. Yeah. 

Different likes and dislikes. So what you may love and your art, someone else might not. That's true. So 

like that's a whole two thing with that comes to finding your right client, finding someone who wants 

your style. I get so nervous. So when I get a client that like, does an inquiry and you can tell they're just 

reaching out to me. I mean, not to toot my own horn, but they're like, over, over, uh, what is it called? 

Complimentary of your work. I love it. I follow you for years. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah up your 

butt kind of thing. Yeah. When they're like, we just. We've been following. I had one client that they're 

like, well, we've been following you for years, and then we're pregnant. Now we've had, you know, two 

losses and you're the one for us. And I'm like, oh, that's a lot of that is a lot. Yeah. Because this could go 

really bad. Yeah, yeah I, I have that pressure on some, some situations too. And that stresses me out. So 

but I mean it's so flattering. Yeah. But it's like well crap. What if this is what I feel like I fail at? What if I 

totally suck? I know, and I think this one was extra pressure because they're like the only baby laugh. 

And I was like, oh my God, I can't. You're like, okay, don't tell me these things till after our session. 

Yeah. Then it'll be okay. Yeah, that's a perfect session. Yeah. Like, please don't tell me your baby sleeps 

all the time. Don't tell me like they never cried because. Yeah. Last session. Right. But yeah. Do you 

have any other triggers? No. I think that's the biggest one that I. Yeah. Uh, what about, like, the booking 

out? Like, um, like people around you booking out, and then you going. Yeah. I mean, I don't think you 

have that issue since you literally had one session every day for the whole week that I was an anomaly. 

And I was gonna say, like, just last month, I think I only had one session, one newborn session. I had a 

couple I, I it was actually just like a baby boom. Because I, um, these were not due dates that were 

anywhere near each other. Like, I guess a little behind the scenes is if I get an inquiry and I have two due 

dates that week for that inquiry, I'm not going to book that because I just knowing how flexible things 

are, like, that's my two. So yeah, I don't even pay attention to that. I'm like, yes, I got time for you. No, 

no, I think I over with myself. I would love to, but I just know like that I'm setting myself up then to have 

all the babies. So this was like somewhere two, three weeks before, three weeks after. And then they all 

just came the same week. And I was talking to one of my parents who is, um, she is a labor delivery 

nurse at the local hospital. And she said, yeah, we've been so busy the last couple of weeks. And she said, 

when I was in the hospital, they weren't doing any inductions because everybody was coming in. Oh my 

gosh. So is that holiday way bigger city than you? So that's like another another big factor. Yeah for sure. 

But um, yeah. But in the slower time period when. So living in a bigger city, there are a lot more, um, of 

photographers near me. There are a lot that are specialised in newborn photography. There are a lot that 

are actually amazing wedding photography photographers and are starting to book newborn because they 

had a baby and now they're wanting to, like, not be. Working on the weekends. Totally understand. But. 

And they're doing theirs cheaper because they're starting and so they're it's a very much more saturated 

market where I'm at. Mhm. So for me um, when I'm slower and I see newborn trying to break into the 

top, I would call it the top tier of our area of newborn photographers. And you see those that are there 

and they're booking a lot more or showing a lot more that week. That's I do start to feel like then it 

becomes a little more personal, like, yeah, I'm not like, which is so stupid and it's not true. Like, yeah. Do 

you ever feel that way? It's not true. It's it's just not, um, there's enough clients out there for everybody. 

There is totally, totally. It doesn't feel like it. It is just the person that I am and I don't. I think, honestly, I 

don't even think anything happened to my childhood to make me that way. It's just my personality. Yeah. 

Like, I want to be liked and we're like 4 or 5 years into this business and we're still feeling this way. 

Yeah, it's it's never just as a beginner, I think it's just it evolves. No. And I'll tend to some are not immune 

for decades, um, decades. And they've had the same feelings. Like they had to check. Why are they doing 

this? Yeah. Um, so what about you? What about, like you said, bookings were kind of low. Do you think 

that kind of plays into it for me. 100%. Yeah. I felt like, um. Just like you. I felt like no one wanted me. 

And I'm like, oh, because there are, like, some other really great photographers in my area, but they don't 

niche down to like, newborn like I do. They don't specialize into like studio newborn or anything like 

that. But they do do like lifestyle newborn and they do price themselves much cheaper than me. Sure. 

And I do find that a lot of people will go to them for that reason. And I'll instantly like personal and I'll 

take it as a personal thing. But then I gotta realize I do charge a lot more, and that's it's most likely just a 

budget thing, but it's just so hard because it it is art. It really is art. And when you're talking art, you're if 

you're a true artist and not just I think in it for the easy money, which it's not easy, it's not it's not easy 

money. But I think sometimes it's viewed that way. And, um, you're putting a piece of yourself into that. 

So yes, I'm photographing somebody else's baby and yes, I'm providing a service for them. Right. But it's 

also something for me, like it is an art for me. Yeah. Yeah. I think though like in that when I first started, 

I felt like it was more of just for the art. But now that like, I'm the breadwinner and I'm the main income 

now, it's. I feel like that part has maybe. Got suffocated. And now I'm, like, chasing after paying the bills. 

And I feel like maybe that might play into a little bit for me. For sure. I need to find that creative spark 

and what I'm just going to say, like working with you, doing this with you, doing sessions with you like 

that's been helping along with that like creative spark again. But it's hard. It's hard to like when when 

you're making when you have to make money doing art and no longer becomes art. And I think that 

really that's a good point. I like to kind of go to the next thing is like how to get out of that feeling. And I 

think that's like, you helped me get out of that feeling. And I think that's really important to have 

somebody in the industry, a friend or mentor or somebody in the industry that can listen to you when 

you're down at those points. And that's someone who's going to, like, blow smoke up your ass and be 

like, you're ridiculous, don't feel this way. But just like, so I had a bad session. I'll send you a picture of it 

and be like, like, this is defeating. And you're not going to tell me, oh, that's amazing. You're going to tell 

you're going to help problem solve, but you're not also going to be like, oh yeah, that's shit. No, I'm not, 

I'm not. I thought that you sent me one that you thought was bad and like I and in my head I'm like, what 

is bad? But like and then I and then I had to really, like nitpick and that's okay. But that's like that for me. 

Like that's what I need. I need someone to like. Yeah. Not tell me it's terrible, but, um, I'm, I'm in this 

enough to know what I don't like about something so I can label it like the one I sent you. It's so great. I 

don't know what's wrong. Like, it's so grey. I don't like it. It's making me feel like I. I don't know what 

I'm doing because I can't figure it out. And then together, we kind of problem you gave like, is it this, is it 

that. And so then help me kind of walk away from it. Yeah. And then sometimes you tell me that to. 

Yeah. Walk away because like, you just need some space from it. Yeah. And that's true. But just to have 

that person, um. I guess to validate those feelings, but not to like make those feelings more enhanced, but 

to validate that every emotion needs to be validated. Yeah. And that and to not say you're wrong. Yeah. 

And to not like also blow smoke up your butt too and make you like. Yeah. I swear more than you know, 

I swear quite a lot actually. I'm just trying not to. We can bleep that out. Maybe I'm okay with swearing. I 

just don't want to come across as like a horrible sailor. Like yeah yeah I promise I am professional. I am a 

horrible sailor. So if you're a client watching this, it's okay. Fine. Yeah. Um, yeah. So that helps me. Is 

like having you. Um, like, truthfully, having someone to talk to because my husband will be like, oh, it's 

a it's a baby. Um, cool. Yeah. Yeah. Or. Sorry I had such a rough time. Pat, Pat. Okay, this does need to 

be done. Or because we're a mess today and I'm like, okay, let's go run on to the next. Yeah. While I'm 

stewing here. But yeah, yeah, yeah. Zach wouldn't really know it was this because they don't really know. 

They're not in that. They don't understand that kind of stuff. Well, and then Owen is like my husband 

Owen. He is an engineer and I don't care what you say. You can pick out an engineer in a lineup. They 

think differently, and I love the way he thinks he can remove emotion out of it and not in, like, a terrible 

way. But he removes all emotion, is very logical. And he's rational, um, about how he thinks through 

problems or not even problems, but just life. I am not that I am very emotional like charged and and us 

artists and me, I think like that's just how, how and why we want to implement each other. And so yeah, 

he doesn't get it. He doesn't. Yeah. Because he doesn't have the emotion invested in it. Right. So that 

makes sense. Yeah. That's really funny though. Yeah. He's. Yeah. He's an engineer. Yeah. Good excuse. 

Yeah. Um, I guess so. Does that that leads into like comparison comparison trap of, um, comparing each 

other's work to other photographers, like scrolling through social media. I mean, that can trigger some 

causes that are like unfollowed people for that reason. And I'm pretty sure I've been unfollowed for that 

reason. Well, you mean as it should be, but I mean, I especially feel it hard when I've had a bad session 

and I see someone who had like a really good session and I'm like. What? Right. And then in the in our 

group to like the hell a little group and stuff like that. Um, and when we like, compare to, like, there's 

some people in there that post, like way more like this one and I barely ever post. And so when the queue 

post, it just blows up and everyone is like, I want to be you, your goals and I love you. And it makes it so 

uncomfortable. And then I post and I don't get a single like, I not like you right now. So yeah, like social 

media is like evil when it comes to I think dealing with imposter syndrome and the imposter syndrome is 

definitely, I think, also mental health. Oh yeah. In a way. So, um, if yeah, if you're feeling it just by 

scrolling, stop scrolling, just like posit, like put your phone down and, um, like, automate your posts and 

put. Okay, I'm a little different though than you on that subject. Like, I do feel the same feelings you do 

where you're going to follow. It kind of charges me, um, like the competitiveness in me. Oh, yeah. Like, 

it's not like I'm competing with the person who had a great session. I. I am community over competition 

all day long. But it's like now a competition with myself that's like, okay, that next one, I'm going to 

figure this out for the next session, and it's going to blow that last one out of the water. I mean, that's just 

truthfully how I can dig myself out because if I don't like it doesn't go away. You know what I'm saying? 

Like just by unfollowing it, it doesn't go away for me. Like, just like saying, oh, that that sucked snow. 

Now I suck versus okay, that sucked, but I'm going to do better next time. Yeah. Like that mental and 

sometimes thinking of my own work. I mean yeah. So if I were to have a really bad session and I see 

someone else, that whole, like, comparison trap, right? Somebody else had a really good session. Then 

I'm going to go look at my old work and like the stuff that I like. And I'm like, okay, I am not bad, I am 

not bad. This is a bad session. Almost like those, um, affirmations, right? Yeah, I am not terrible. I just 

had a bad session. I'm right. I am a good photographer, right? I just put a post-it note on my mirror or 

whatever. Like it was a bad session. Not even a bad session. It was an off session. Yeah. I am a good 

photographer. I know what I'm doing. It's okay. Like, all babies are different. And then it does end up 

like, that's the thing. It does end up being okay. It's just those feelings. Um, but do you think you had 

more imposter syndrome before you got the education? Like education? No, I think I have it more now. 

More now. I think, honestly, I think I was so naive. I remember posting, um, in the group. Like one of the 

first times was my nephew session, and, um, I remember posting a picture and he was wrapped in this 

white wrap. I'm gonna see if I find it so we can put it in there. He's the one that you posted that little, like, 

video. Oh, no. Oh, okay. This is my. That was my. That was a different one. This is the youngest 

nephew, which I got a little better from my oldest son. My youngest. But I didn't have the education. Um, 

but he's wrapped this white wrap, and it was like my first hello, little, like, backdrop and wrap. So I 

thought I felt so professional. I had the lifters. I'm like, all right, we're doing this. I don't have the 

education, but I've been in the group following. And sometimes you get like, yeah, sometimes you like a 

little bit of free advice. And they're like, when somebody posts something and somebody maybe from the 

education group also comes in and like comments on it, if they're asking for CC and they'll give you like 

little freebies here and there. Yeah. So I remember walking in, took the picture and I remember posting it. 

Hello little. I didn't have like any of my education. And I was like, this is this is the photo that I can't 

believe that I, I'm the one who took this. And in that moment, I felt like I was, uh, maybe like I was on 

par with all these top photographers. Like, I thought, I'm going there because I totally don't go on it. Um, 

and now I look at it and I am so embarrassed because I'm like this, these other photographers who were 

like, and they're everybody's so kind to that group. Like, honestly, if you're a newer photographer, I can't 

recommend Hello little like their community outside of the education for sure enough, because it is the 

nicest group of photographers. Nobody has an ego there. Yeah. Um, not one person said like, oh, this is. 

It's okay. Oh, yay! Good for you. Yeah. Um. But now I look back and I'm, like, cringe. They must have 

sat behind their computer. Like, oh my gosh. But. So I feel like it's that whole, like, what? You don't 

know. You don't know. Ignorance is bliss. Yeah. So after knowing this stuff now differently. Yeah. Now 

I feel it. I remember feeling that way too when I did Lincoln's since he was six weeks old. I thought I did 

so good. Yeah, I thought they were amazing. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And we just talked about growth in the 

group. We did. Yeah. And, um, I post this video every year. They. So they'll open up their ad group every 

once in a while and they'll ask people to like post their before and afters. And so I made this video and I'll 

update it with newer images to kind of really show. Yeah. But I only use my nephew, my oldest nephews 

and my sons. Who's going to be for this week his newborn pictures, because I get this icky feeling of 

using my clients work. I know, like everybody's everybody said, yeah, I don't want them to feel bad, but I 

don't think they would. It's it's a me thing. Like, I don't want someone to accidentally find that and be 

like, oh, she thought these were crap. Right. And that's my baby. And I love them. Yeah. Um, so I just 

use my kids, but. Yeah. Posted that and yeah, I saw that. I love that I didn't do that this time. I should 

have. I'm like, I don't I don't feel like digging. I feel like I did my canvas. I really need to. It's it's 

amazing. Oh my God. Amazing. Whatever. Um, yeah. So that comparison trap. And I think knowing 

more, do you feel like it affects your business in any way? I try not to. I don't. I don't know if it affect like 

your marketing. I know how much effort you put towards like advertising and things like that. I feel like 

when I start to feel it and I feel like I've failed, then I feel like I need to. It's almost like, so I just play 

basketball and you can end on a bad shot. Right. It's like you walk away. So you walk away from 

practice. And if you. The last shot you took was a miss, you can't end on it. You have to. You have to do 

it. You have to make it as bad luck to leave without, like, making that basket. Um, so that's kind of how I 

feel when I have a session that starts to make me feel like I don't know what I'm doing, that I'm not as 

good as what I'm charging, that, you know, all of this stuff that I have to, that I feel like I have to get a 

new board in as soon as possible to fix that. Yeah. So I don't walk away with the shot. I guess that's a 

that's so new. Yeah. So I guess I think I amp up my marketing then. Okay. I think that I honestly start to 

market more so that I can get somebody in. Mm. I think I'm the opposite. Yeah. Which is funny because 

we're not opposites at all. Anything else? But, um, I feel like if I have a bad session, I, I immediately like, 

why should I mark it? Because, like, I'm just not good enough. No one's going to want to pay me that 

much money. And then. And then, of course, I think the imposter syndrome does heighten a lot, 

especially if I get a client that pays for anything. Um, because then I'm like, now I really feel a pressure 

to do a good job, and I feel like the imposter syndrome hits me then, too. I think it just, it, I think it 

imposter syndrome is like literally in every aspect in some way, shape or form. Yeah. Um, and I think the 

only time that I don't really know of any time that it's not there, but kind of an underlying. Yeah. It's like 

an underlying thing, I guess, like when I was like really busy, I didn't really feel it as much. Yeah. But I 

guess now that I think I'm thinking more and more into it, because when we do these podcasts, like, we 

literally just we come up with a topic and then we just kind of talk through it and just kind of talk through 

it. We don't pre-plan any of this. And so I'm like, now that I'm like really thinking about it, I'm like, it's 

kind of like always there it is. And I feel like it's yeah. Now that I think about it, I think it is always there. 

I feel like it is. I think you're right. I think it's always like the sleeping. It's like a sleeping monster. It is a 

sleeping monster. And it's just it's always there to like, it's a sleeping dragon. We watch dragons. It's a 

sleeping dragon. Um. And it's it's it's. Doesn't take much to trigger it. Yeah. And, um, yeah. And I think 

you touched on so like we do also create these little bullet points, um, of like things that we do want to 

touch on or things like that. And one of them is ways to combat it. And you covered it by like by doing 

another shot. Doing it. Yeah. Getting another shot. Yeah. And then talking to somebody and then talking 

to people. Yeah. And then also like if you do find social media, if you feel like you're comparing yourself 

in a negative way versus a trying to get better way, then unfollowed, you know, shut your phone off, go 

focus on something else. Take a break. Yeah, yeah. Walk away like, you know, walk away like like re 

reset yourself and come back. And I think for me too, I do need to do that a lot. And that's why I really 

appreciate when you tell me like this. Because I feel like sometimes you just get so. Oh yeah. Like I 

intense. I mean, this is probably very unhealthy, so don't be like me. But I am. And we've talked about 

how obsessed I am with this. Yeah. This job. Um, I'm not kidding. Like, if I'm not mommy and wifey, 

which sometimes I don't wife as much as I should. Um, I am doing. I am pouring myself into this art. 

Like it's it consumes me sometimes. And so when you and I and I need to really fall back into some of 

the other hobbies I have. So when you tell me to walk away, and even if it's like, all right, I'm going to 

walk away tonight, I'm not opening my computer. I'm going to put on a trashy like, Bravo TV. Yeah. 

Reality show. Yeah. Have a chai tea and just sit and like, then it's kind of like, okay. And I come back at 

it and it's like, she was right. It's isn't just going to take a break. I'm not bad. Yeah. Um, I do feel though, 

because we just talked about this when I walked into your studio today. Um, I do feel like the imposter 

syndrome is sleeping, and I do feel like it affects my pricing. So. Yeah, I feel like, um, even after good 

sessions, I still do not feel like I am worth more than I am charging. And I think a lot of that has to do 

with the fact that. There will always be a session that's not going to be perfect, and then I will feel really 

bad, even though, like the best of my sessions, I feel like, oh yeah, definitely worth it. Then there's 

always those, like, not so great ones that I feel like I'm just I'm not worth it. And, um, I especially think in 

today's economical climate, that's a big work for me. Um, right. Uh, I feel like the value of money and of, 

um, just the upper middle class is so much more. And so, like, I don't want to provide something where 

they're going to feel like it wasn't worth it. So I think, um, what could help is just the mindset shift that 

how you feel, what your value is, is different. What a client will feel your value is because like, like, um, 

that triplet session that you helped me with. Yeah. I thought we barely got anything that was worth it. 

And I decided I thought it was a really great subject. Yeah. She thought. Yeah, but I thought I got I didn't 

get hardly any variety I got, I felt like I barely got anything good enough to actually fill a good gallery. 

Like, yeah, there was a couple epic shots, but there wasn't more than just a couple epic shots. There was 

just a few here and there. And honestly, if it wasn't for mug shots, their order probably would have been 

really small. Yeah. Um, because they did buy a lot of mug shots. But still, to this day, that was my 

highest paying order ever. And I thought it was absolutely crap, really, because I walked away and I'm 

like, you posed three babies, but you helped me pose those three babies. So it was not just me. If anybody 

has ever done a triplet session before alone, please let us know. I don't think there is any way to do a 

triplet session. I hope you never do a multiple session alone. I've done twins. I do twins a lot. I couldn't, I 

would never there's no way if you've done a triple session alone, you are a god among men. Yeah, born 

photography world. Let us know. And I want to let you. I wouldn't recommend it. Yeah. Um, but I feel 

like, um, the way that you value yourself is different than the way other people value. And I think if. If 

you. I don't know how to word this, but like the price tag you put on yourself. I think you're limiting 

yourself. Yeah. If you let someone else decide how much they want to pay. Like, not like pay what you 

can. Not like that. Don't do that. No, but like, how you set it up. Where you have your time versus your 

images. So you have them pay for your time, and then you let them choose how many images they want 

at their budget or whatever. Um, you'll be surprised at how much they're willing to pay. Yeah. For you, 

for your service and how much they'll value. Like, I think the way that the packages are set up, like 

where you get this number of images for this amount and that's all you get. I think that's super limiting. 

Yeah. And it's it's like it's a ceiling. And I felt like with my pricing structure, I, I hated that the fact that 

like I had people willing to buy more, but I, I was limiting them. Yeah. And I wanted to open that up. I 

wanted it to be an unlimited thing. I wanted people to, like, buy 5 to 10 images if that's all they could 

afford, or buy 72 images like that one maternity client did. Yeah, like that would never have happened 

before. So it's just so this is way off topic for just a second since we talked about that. Yeah. Um, what if 

though, like you had. So for me, I have a hard time like, thinking about that, because if you had three 

clients books right, for the month and then, like, you're like, you have a minimum investment, right? For 

your time. It's built in. Yeah. Right. So then if they just buy like 2 to 3 images and then all of a sudden 

you're like, well, I'm making less now that I would, I would have just done the way that it's built in. They 

can't buy less than ten. Okay. So like the minimum investment would be my session retainer plus my 

minimum okay. Collection. But I explain it to my clients that this minimum collection is not a package. 

They're more like benchmarks. Because when we go through your ordering appointment, you're not 

going to be limited to ten, 20 and 30. We're just going to eliminate until you can no longer eliminate, 

until you get to the point where it's so painful you can't say no anymore. Yeah. And then that's what we 

end up on. And then we price it out. And then I have these benchmarks where the like. I'm probably 

giving a lot away here. Sorry I asked a question, but like, I have these benchmarks where they get 

essentially some freebies, you know, along the way, and it's more enticing each level. And that was a 

straight off tangent, but it was but and I totally just gave away a lot of like, you know, great tips there. So 

take advantage of that. But but it really has helped me increase my sales. And um, and it also helps not 

put that limit. Yeah, I think I mean, I totally understand that. It's just for me, it's going to be like getting 

over that because you're going to have a you're going to have a person that's going to think like, I'm going 

to pay as much as I can because that's because you you're so valued by them. But also, I don't want 

someone choosing 100 newborn images because newborn image editing, I have never had so much 

editing. And there are I mean, there are programs out there, and I do know of photographers in my area 

that do a lot of, um, they do a lot of images and 24 hour turnaround time, which, you know, what's great 

on that, but, um, and I you can tell like, as maybe as a client, you can't tell. But as a photographer, I can 

tell that they're using these, um, programs or whatever. But as a client, no one's going to know, right? 

And so, um, but I, I hand at it everything and. If the lighting's really good, I could do it fairly quickly, but 

it's still, if you order 100 images, that's going to take half a day. Two image maternity gallery. Killed me. 

Oh, yeah. Killed me. I could not look at that girl's face another time. It's a lot. It's a lot. When you hand 

out it, isn't it? Yeah. It was a lie. And, I mean, they were fantastic people. The sweetest girl ever. But 

while you're trying to fix the same thing over and over again in 72 images, just be like, I can't look at this 

couple anymore, right? And I don't think I could deliver work that I would not be happy with either, so 

I'd have to go through my whole process. So yeah, I think a lot of it is a mental shift for sure when it 

comes towards that. I don't know how we got onto that with imposter syndrome, but I mean, it's 

delivering products that yeah, I'm happy with. Yeah for sure. Um, and like being valued. I think that's a 

huge thing. I think being valued or having the feeling that you're valued is a huge part of helping, um, 

overcome. And you said your imposter syndrome kept you from charging more. Mhm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 

So it's not that I don't think, I think all of my clients value me. I don't think I can honestly say I've had a 

client that I didn't feel like they. Valued me or my work like, even when I was beginning. But, um, it's 

just, you know, when you talk about, like, love languages, right? It's just like, I need to feel like my. I'm 

valued. You get to really, like, step out of that. Like, what makes you feel valued? Well, I don't know, 

like, what's your love language? My love language? I think it's words of affirmation for sure. So I love 

when a client comes back and they're like and genuinely not just like, and they rave about it. And just 

like, I love my images and it needs to feel genuine because I being a words of affirmation girl, I can also 

see around us like, this is what I'm supposed to say. Like, um, I know it's I feel like you would 

absolutely. You would thrive with an ordering appointment. I probably would, I would probably like 

100% my pants the first, because I'm also not a sailor and you're not a sales person, so I don't feel salesy 

one bit. Okay. Like I was really afraid of that. Yeah. Um, but no, I'm not being salesy at all. I used to 

have an episode on pricing for sure, because, like, this is we need to dig into this. Not just that's not 

necessarily like the vehicle of how you do it, but just like the the mindset of yeah, yeah, because I feel 

like it's more of a service and I'm providing them an experience versus being salesy because I, I 

mentioned this on the podcast that we yeah, that we recorded that didn't work. So people can you can 

watch that. Oh no. This is the one that didn't work. Okay. Like our recording sucks. I couldn't edit it. Um, 

but I had a maternity client. Um, and I did her ordering appointment, and I. And I do these slideshows in 

the beginning, or they, um, I go through my favorites, and I edited it a couple, and I'm watching them, 

and I'm just watching as the slideshow is playing, and she's just bawling full blown. Like ugly crying and 

I'm like, what is going on? At first I'm like, does she know? I'm like, what's happening? And, um. And 

then he's he's like beaming and stuff like that, and he's just looking and she's like wiping her face. And 

then after the slideshow, she's like, I never thought I was that beautiful. And I'm like. And right before 

this session, I was having some serious imposter syndrome about because I don't do a whole lot of studio 

maturity. It doesn't come around a whole lot. Yeah. And so I was very afraid that I did a really bad job, 

um, with her session and, and we did two parts. So we did a studio in an outdoor and, um, like I said 

earlier, too, the outdoor stuff is just not my thing. And it was like the first time being outside 

photographing anything in a year. And I'm like, this is really going to suck. And in the moment, in the 

session, I'm like, I'm not lighting them, right? I'm not positioning them right. Like nothing. Nothing is 

right. Like nothing is right. It does not look good. I can't get posing like it lasted all of 20 minutes 

because I ran out of ideas and I'm like, it's like, I know maternity. Like I always feel like I just keep doing 

the same thing over and over. Yeah, a different outfit in a different spot. But like, I know it's probably 

just because I'm not. I'm not trained in that, I guess because I'm sure if you're like, if that's your specialty, 

then you you're gonna laugh at me and be like, that's not true. But yeah, because it's not my specialty. 

Like and I'm not even it's not my specialty, but I'm not bad at it either. So like, you know, you did some 

pretty fantastic stuff recently. But anyway, it was like, I thought I did a really shitty job and but then 

when we did the slideshow, the, the mom was just bawling because she, she had some apparently she had 

some self-confidence, self-image issues, and she was bawling because she's like, I never thought I was 

that beautiful. Oh, and then like, instantly made me like, okay. Because that was the other thing we talked 

about that was in that other recording was purpose. Yeah. And I felt like I was losing my purpose and 

what I was doing. And, um, she helped me kind of remind myself, like, so what is your purpose? That is 

my purpose. Um, I still struggle with that, like was today. What's your purpose today? Today? Oh, for 

doing photography. Yeah. Or newborn photography. Like, if you wanted to go specific, what's your 

what's your why? What's your reasoning? I think my why is ever evolving. Yeah. Um, a lot of it is just, 

you know, I feel like it's the cliche thing to say, like capturing those special little details for moms, you 

know, because babies grow so fast. But. And then the maternity was like to remind women that they are 

beautiful. But also my why is has evolved into like I need to feed my family and I need to take care of 

my family and pay my bills. Yeah. Um, so I don't I still very much struggle with my purpose of what I 

do. Yeah. Like, and I think that plays into my own mental health issues. Um, as I'll, I'll be sitting there 

editing this gallery that's like, you know, however many images and I'll be like, why am I doing this? 2: 

00 in the morning. Why am I doing this? Well, it would be more like like, um, why am I posing a baby 

like that? Like, why am I taking a picture like this? Why does it have to look like that? Yeah. And that's 

going to be something we'll touch on again in trends because that's like. But like that'll be why I be like, 

what is the reason why I'm doing? And why would anyone want to come to me for this. And my and then 

my brain will spiral and be like, why the hell am I even doing this? Yeah. Like, what's the point? Yeah. 

And then I get a client like her that bawled her eyes out on the ordering appointment, and I'm like, okay, 

like that makes sense. Yeah. Like that's a reason why is because, um, we all have our hospital photos 

from the 1980s. Like, that's why, you know, that's why. That's why. And like, I mean, I think having, um, 

even if it's evolving for whatever season of life you're in. Yeah. Having. If you think if you start feeling 

those feelings of imposter and defeat, um, sitting back and really like, okay, what's my why, why am I 

doing this? And if you can't come up with one, then maybe it is time to just take a take a step back. Take 

a step back, and I mean take less sessions, whatever. But and also know my purpose kind of came up out 

to like when my dad died and all I wanted was pictures. Yeah. And all I have is a box full of Polaroids, 

um, from back then. Yeah. And, um, so, you see, the value is. So I see the value in having those pictures, 

but then I spin it around in my head stupidly, like, okay, yeah, they want these pictures, but why do they 

have to pose like that? Yeah. Like, why does it matter what you're good at? Because that's the art of it. I 

think that's the art. So then it plays into the art. And that goes back to my. Why? Yeah, I am a creative 

person. I'm not a drawer. Yeah, but I have always needed a creative outlet of some sort and, um, you 

know, dabbling in different things. Like, I've had a camera in my hand since I was 18, like a DSLR, like 

a professional camera. And so I've been taking pictures. But it wasn't until I found. Studio, Newport 

Photography inside using light, playing with the light, playing with textures, backdrops, um, babies and 

hearing like the oh my gosh, this is why you're taking the picture. Like that's when I feel like I'm creating 

the art for me. Like it? It is your baby. It is your product. But like, but it's your art. By hiring me, you're 

helping my mental health. Like I need to do that. Um, yeah. I can't imagine maybe one day, ten years 

down the line, I'm going to eat my words here, but I can't imagine not doing this. Like I can't imagine not 

doing this. That's amazing that you have that. But that's it. That's your plan. I think your reason why is 

always evolving. My why is to create something. And this is what I have been gifted. Do you feel like it's 

evolved over the last four years? Um, I think it's always been to create something I really do. I think 

that's been the draw was to create art. Um, have you ever struggled with purpose like I have, or am I just 

the only one? Hey, if you're not the only. If I'm not the only one, please comment below and tell me. I 

think when I lose sight of the why. So when I get too busy sometimes I don't think that's imposter 

syndrome. I think it's I get too busy and I can't. I don't have that feeling of like creating, right? It feels 

almost monotonous, I guess. Right? Yeah. Um, but when I have the the space when things work out, 

which luckily this last week I did not have the same because honestly, that's a that's a lot. And it 

definitely could have come up. But if I get too busy where I can't have that feeling of that I get from my 

why my like I'm creating art. And if I start feeling like it's just like another day, um, yeah, in the studio, 

then it does. I do lose my sight like sense of purpose. Then I start questioning. Like, this is a lot of time 

for my family. Yeah. Um, like, is it your house is a wreck? Is this really worth it? Like. Like, is it worth 

it? Yeah. It's more on the opposite end that, like, my husband's job provides for us. And he is. He is 

amazing at providing for us like he has. I don't want to say he has, like this traditional view stance like 

that. The man provides, the woman doesn't I don't I think he'd be very happy if I could like provide. And 

he didn't have to, but, um, he does is a sense of duty and honor for him to provide for us. Um, and so I'm 

very fortunate in the fact that I've been able to explore this passion and not have to necessarily not that I 

don't have to worry, but I don't have the pressure that like, yeah, we're not going to eat next week. So, 

yeah. Um, that's uh, that really does, I think, change perspective a little bit. Um, so mine is just creating. 

Yeah. That's amazing though. And I will like just clarify that my husband does feel the same way about 

he has been the breadwinner and the provider for 20 years. Yeah. And but he got to a point physically 

because his job was very physical. Oh my gosh, I would just love to be I would love to. One day he 

would. You're gonna be like, no you won't. But to be able to give my husband that time that I've had, you 

know, like, well, because he, he worked so hard to provide for us for so long. Yeah. And he got it got to 

the point where, like, he needed neck surgery and his body is just it's. It's older than he actually is, and I 

hate seeing him be in pain all the time, and that he feels like that's all he's good at. And he didn't want to 

pursue anything else because that's all he felt like he could do. And I didn't want him to suffer anymore. 

And I want. And he missed the kids. The kids missed him. And I'm like, I want it to be my turn. And so 

this is it's not like it's a forced thing. It's a my choice thing. Yeah. So like, he could easily go back to 

work and be the breadwinner and it tables turned but we chose. Yeah. For him to take a break and for 

him to be a stay at home dad. And that way I could work more. And I still think it's amazing, though. 

Yeah. Um, I would 100% you need. You should feel so proud that you are able to. Yeah, and I do. I do 

feel very proud of that. Um, he does have days and stuff like that where he's like, I feel useless or he'll 

feel that way because, like, the man in him, I think this is a very cultural. It's a very thing. Yeah. And, 

um, so he's finding, you know, purpose in other ways, and he'll take on an end jobs. And he's still he still 

works. He just doesn't work a 9 to 5 anymore. Yeah. So I think that's that's amazing. Yeah. Just I think 

that's what I think maybe differentiates sometimes are your why my why and your why. It's so different 

because you're in a different we have different perspectives right now on how our seasons different 

family dynamic dynamics. Yeah for sure. But yeah that's my that's my why is to create as. I. I would be 

lost if I couldn't create. Do you ever feel like, um, like stale by doing the same thing over again? I just 

had to buy. I just had to buy. I had to buy a bunch of drops. I did, I had to buy that basket prop because 

you made me shoot it, see? Oh, I made I made you bring it here. Um. And then I fell in love with it. And 

then I was like, if I don't buy this now and it's sold out, I will kick myself. Robert. Right? Yeah. So I feel 

yeah, if I feel stale, I do this, buy new stuff. I try to buy new stuff or like I have some drops sometimes 

I'll, I haven't used ever or try a new pose or something or like get a bottle and. Yeah, um, but I hope that 

like, I think that's really cool how we connected because you're. Why am I, why are so different that I 

think that's why. Like, we work together so well is because, like, you are really starting to make me think 

about, um, my, not my purpose, but like, um, the validation, like, on the business side of it, right? Or I 

take it so personally, so emotionally, and not that you don't, but like, um, I very much do. Yeah, but 

you're you're eight. That's right. Now, that's not where you're at. Like at your business. Right. So. And so 

that's where I feel I think you're creative. Like I've got so much creative energy and you're healthy there. 

You go over and you're like, hey, maybe start thinking a little more business, like, here you go make 

more money. Yeah. And I think that's why we work. Well, yeah, for sure, I think so. And just FYI, I've 

never I've never I can't say never. It took a lot of work. Like to get to feeling like this business wise. 

Yeah. Like it it was a lot of mental work I think. And a lot of, you know, just. And everything. It was. It's 

not easy. It's not easy. That's one of the reasons I haven't. Yeah. Like, I don't know if I have the stamina 

to it. It literally took the feeling like I was jumping off a bridge to, like, do it. Yeah. Like, it was that 

feeling. That gut wrenching feeling. That is such a good analogy. Because that's where I feel like. I feel 

like I'm standing on the bridge, holding on to the sides, like, oh, am I going to go, oh no, no no, no. And 

here I am behind you and pushing you. And it's like death dripping on there. So I mean, eventually on the 

fall. Yeah. You'll get there. You'll get there. This will be a legit business one. Yeah. Maybe when you 

become a studio life. Yeah, well, I have no choice. Yeah. No, I was hoping that I got the studio, like, 

when I moved out of my house, I'd be like, okay, now I'm legit. And now. Oh, so this is the imposter 

syndrome thing. Right. So I used to shoot out of my home. I have, like, a formal dining room in my home 

and are not, uh, living room in my home. So I used to shoot out of there, and then eventually, like, I got 

too much stuff, like it was all stored in my office downstairs, and I wanted it like I didn't feel legit doing 

it in my living room. So I got a studio, and then I'm in a studio and I'm like, I don't feel legit yet. So that's 

what it is. That's the imposter syndrome in a nutshell. It's like one of those things where, like, I just the 

next pretty thing is gonna make me feel better, but then it doesn't. Yeah, yeah. Oh, so we talked about a 

lot here. Yeah. We did, um, and a few little offshoots of a lot of topics, but it's going to happen with us 

guys. So yeah, we haven't seen each other in a month so. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Well we tried podcasting a 

couple times and we just gotta remember those things. But if you guys want to like tell us your stories 

about your imposter syndrome stories and or like if you have tips on how you get out of it. Because, 

yeah, what works for one person, as you can see, doesn't work for the other person. No. Everyone's 

different. Every business is different. Yeah, every family dynamic is different. Yeah. So if you want to 

like tell us your stories like comment and let us know. Now. Maybe we'll share it. Yeah. Like 

anonymously. And, I mean, you guys can email. You can even email if you don't want to post it publicly. 

Like you can email us and your my, my our email will be in the description. Yeah. So I just I think the 

key points here is like you're not alone. Everybody feels that no matter how many years you've been 

doing this, um, seasoned veteran or amateur, like you're going to feel this and it sucks. And but you're not 

alone. No. Um, and that you just got to figure out new ways to deal with it, because it's always going to 

be ever evolving. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, make sure you have a photog buddy that even if they're if they're 

cross country, that's even better. Yeah. I mean, not because you don't get to see them, but, you know, you 

got really cool vacations that way. Yeah. Like, true. True. FaceTime a time and visit every six months. 

That'd be awesome. All right. Maybe I'm moving out to Hawaii. Oh, my God, don't move to Hawaii. Oh. 

Um, but. Yeah. And I think for me, even, like, for my feeling of wanting to be perfect, um, nobody's 

perfect in this industry. You're never going to have a perfect session. Sorry. I mean, fixing that bubble, 

you're never going to be in session. You're never going to have. It's never going to be perfect. And so, 

like, I think once you can kind of let go of chasing that idea of perfection, that will help numb the pain 

when you start to get into that imposter syndrome. Yeah. Yeah. And instead of comparing yourself to 

others, compare yourself to your past self. Yeah. Because I guarantee you're I, I know you're not seeing 

like. Yeah, you're seeing the best of the best. Yeah. It's your highlight reel. You know, you're not seeing, 

like, the 500 shots that they took before they got that one. Yeah. You know, I mean, I could host my best 

session this last week and you'll see 20 images that are fantastic. Fantastic. But there are 100 images 

behind that that are, that are not fantastic. They're not like three other setups that just are like yeah. Mhm. 

Yeah. So clients like not choose whole sets before and I'm like oh okay. Yeah I do all the time. But I do a 

lot of sets. So that's probably why. Yeah we'll have to talk about that next. Next we talk about trends. Um 

yeah. Anyway, um, thank you guys so much for coming back. Um, we promise to do this every two 

weeks now. Now that we've figuring this out, we've got a system. I think I think we have a plan, I think 

so I have a plan. So winter hits? Yes. Oh, yeah. Don't look to that. But, um. Yeah, we're going to be 

posting a new one every two weeks from now on. Um, but yeah, if you guys have any ideas or topics that 

you guys want us to cover, um, or you want to hear us just chit chat about, um, let us know, and then, 

um, yeah, we'll see you in a couple of weeks. Sounds good. Bye, guys. Bye bye.